Corvette thoughts

"Discerning" (discerning2003c5z) 10/28/2018 at 11:21 • Filed to: None

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I hate targa tops. Absolutely can’t stand them. I’ve never removed one for more than 5 minutes without regretting it. I’m just not a removable top kind of person - which is going to make this suggestion sound insane.

I think a C6 convertible with the hardtop could make for an ideal car for someone like me. Hear me out...

The Targa top can be noisy and squeaky at any given moment, which would drive me nuts. The large back window is heavy and not a style I’m in love with.

But a C6 convertible weighs as little as a coupe and has the same rigidity. Plus, the hardtop looks a lot like a C5Z:

I would be willing to bet that you could remove the waterfall, softtop, and mechanism and motor, replace it with a hardtop and end up with a lighter car that squeaks and rattles less. Aero would be compromised, but not significantly. I would bet you could even fix one in place and increase rigidity, a la c5z.

Right now you’re probably wondering why I don’t get a C5z. I already owned one for 5 years. I also hate pop up headlights and the M12 gear ratios. I know, I’m a monster.

I think this could work, but i also acknowledge that it’s a little bonkers.

Here’s a very old picture of my C5Z before I lowered it on stock bolts - for those who don’t share my pop-up-headlight-hatred:

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > Discerning 10/28/2018 at 11:48

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Just ge t a C5 FRC, best Vette ever made.

Discerning > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 10/28/2018 at 11:50

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I had a C5Z for 5 years. I don't like pop up headlights and I like that the C6 is narrower while having a longer wheelbase. Driving them back to back, the C6 feels more compact

daender > Discerning 10/28/2018 at 12:04

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Find a C6Z with a bad engine, transplant LS3, win?

Discerning > daender 10/28/2018 at 12:11

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That’s actually a really interesting proposition. Then you have t he bodywork and everything alreadg.

daender > Discerning 10/28/2018 at 12:27

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Bingo! I keep hearing about valve issues with LS7s so why not replace it with a conservative, more reliable but still-powerful LS3?

wafflesnfalafel > Discerning 10/28/2018 at 12:57

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An upgraded, stronger attachment mechanism probably would be the biggest challenge - but you are absolutely right, if you dump the canvas top and frame it ought to be stiffer a bit lighter even than the targa. (You just have to promise to put those cool grated vents from the c5 z06 in front of the rear wheel wells.)

You know what... I’ll bet one of the big top mfgs has already been asked to do something like that.  Maybe Smoothline?  Might be worth asking them just for funsies if nothing else...

Discerning > daender 10/28/2018 at 13:51

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I agree 100% the more I think about it. This is exceptionally tempting. Hmmmmm  

dogisbadob > Discerning 10/28/2018 at 20:18

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The only reason the C5 Z06 was even made is because of the very fact they couldn’t sell what your configuration—the FRC. The Z06 was borne out of a bunch of unsold hardtops.

Did they offer that C6 convertible hardtop from the factory?

And you’re a popup headlight hater? NOT COOL :p

punkgoose17 > Discerning 10/28/2018 at 20:47

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I like this idea a lot. I thought about doing something like that to a Saab 9-3 convertible, but this makes much more sense.

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > Discerning 10/28/2018 at 20:49

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Gotta follow your own course. Makes some sense, though, if light weight is the main goal. One wonders if there is a stabilizing frame that could fit inside the hard top, or a hard top that is structurally re-inforced, to tie the windshield header to the top rear corners of the door frame, or other chassis location behind the seats, as well as some roll-over protection to really tie the body together, better than stock convertible or targa top versions.

It isn’t as tapered and aerodynamic but it kind of reminds me of the old Jaguar E-type Lightweight competition coupes, that were likewise modified and closed-up roadsters, rather than the road car 2+2 or 2+0 hatchback coupes, or the low-drag coupes, where the hardtops were grafted into the bodywork, rather than just semi- permanently bolted on over a roll-cage.

Gary Pighetti > I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker 10/29/2018 at 01:20

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Had a 2000. You’re absolutely correct. 

Josh Bailey > daender 10/29/2018 at 05:48

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Isn’t that essentially  a Grand Sport?

Josh Bailey > daender 10/29/2018 at 05:48

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Everyone I have spoken to that has this engine says that there is a one time fix for the issue.

daender > Josh Bailey 10/29/2018 at 06:37

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Grand Sports still came with the targa roof, if I remember correctly, but I agree and I would’ve suggested it if it came as a hardtop.

Arrivederci > daender 10/29/2018 at 08:00

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LS3 with a mild cam, headers and a full exhaust would be right at LS7 power levels, too.

getFuckedHerb > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 08:58

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I’m a targa lover, so grain of salt.

C6 Targa’s aren’t squeaky or rattly if they’re either produced after a date or fixed properly to avoid the bearing in them rattling. One of my favorite parts of the targa is how it has none of the convertible trade offs (wind noise, rattles, squeaks) but that said C6 convertibles are pretty good.

If you just really hate the back window, I’ve seen a few of these type of replacement hatches floating around:

I don’t care for it, but maybe it’s your jam. I do love the FRC rear window but when I had C5's I always wanted the FRC rear window with the Targa top. There were a few that did it and I loved it.

I couldn’t ditch the targa just due to the headroom the clear top gives me lol.

PartyPooper2012 > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 09:15

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You’re a monster. I spent a long time hunting for a vette with pop up lights.

Well... a vette with pop up lights and no mecha nical issues... well a vette with pop up lights, no mechanical issues and a manual. Also not red and targa top...

You are me in parallel universe where we are complete mirror opposites of each other.

BeaterGT > daender 10/29/2018 at 09:15

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Better to just fix the LS7 and keep that.

BeaterGT > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 09:23

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Wait, what? Don’t like pop up headlights and the M12 ratios ? Just curious, w hy not the M12 ?

Also, wasn’t aware the C6 targa was that noisy.

Discerning > getFuckedHerb 10/29/2018 at 09:34

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I drove a lot of C6's before I got my c5z years ago and they all creaked or rattled to some degree. Even the c7's I’ve driven more recently creaked a little.

If there is a permanent fix , that would be nice. I’d still prefer the fixed top though.

That rear hatch actually looks kinda cool. I do think the big window actually makes the C5 and C6 look dated.

Discerning > PartyPooper2012 10/29/2018 at 09:38

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I had a yellow c5z and I loved it. I had that car longer than any other and it is the benchmark I use to measure any other car against.

Allow me to clarify a few things about my pop up hatred.

Positives:

1) I love the way they look when down. Very sleek

That it.... Haha

Ne gatives:

Heavy , unreliable, noise, aero parachutes, ugly at night.

I actually tinkered with the idea of pulling the whole light and mechanism and mounting the cover in place with h ome made hardware. But I would have then mounted fogs and I don't like how the fogs look

Josh Bailey > daender 10/29/2018 at 09:42

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You seem to be correct. I thought the Grand Sports shared the chassis with the Z06 as well, but it seems that they are more or less some Z06 bits added to the base chassis with a handbuilt, dry-sump LS3.

Discerning > BeaterGT 10/29/2018 at 09:43

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Some are saying it isn’t, but it was to me. I’m very particular about creaks and squeaks and I noticed it in everyone I drove.

The M12 was noticeably annoying from 3rd to 4th. The drop in RPMs is just enough to be noticeable on the back straight at road atlanta and in a half mile event, for example. The MN6 is better spaced even though 1st is taller. Even the taller 1st gear would be nice. I usually left in 2nd because of how short 1st is in the M12.

I would still consider getting another C5 ZO6, though I would try to get an mn6 from a junkyard and swap that in. Just prefer it over all.

Discerning > BeaterGT 10/29/2018 at 10:20

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I will say that the M12 is a good autocross box. 2nd and 3rd are spaced well and shorter than the MN6.

C6Z has the MN6 ratios and people don’t complain about 2nd and 3rd for autocross, but they have more torque obviously

PartyPooper2012 > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 10:32

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you’ve come to the wrong neighborhood.

RX > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 11:22

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You think an aftermarket top is going to be less noisy and squeaky than a factory top?

I think the best option if you absolutely hate the targa is to get a C6Z. It will cost a little more buy will also hold it’s value a lot better

RX > PartyPooper2012 10/29/2018 at 11:25

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No discussion on pop up headlights is complete without

or

BeaterGT > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 12:22

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I plan to do all sorts of racing and driving in my C5Z. It’s been mostly drag so far since Atco is <15 minutes away and the M12 works well there but I have noticed the 3rd-4th dip.

I’m actually surprised you stuck with a C5z for 5 years with your tolerance for creaks and squeaks!

Discerning > BeaterGT 10/29/2018 at 13:48

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Th e car was actually really tight. I purchased it with 10k miles or so and it was solid.

The only noise that was a but maddening was the fuel pump.

But it otherwise wasn't terrible

Discerning > RX 10/29/2018 at 14:01

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The Z06 is fine, but roll cages/bars can be exceptionally tricky and expensive due to the aluminum frame.

So me people have actually converted a C6 targa to a solid roof. Its doable, but difficult to convert back

BeaterGT > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 14:21

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Oh wow, that is super low miles relative to mine.  I’m in the process of tightening everything back up :)  but I absolutely love driving it.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 14:52

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I’ve been thinking about Corvettes a LOT  lately. How do you feel about the C7s? The 7 speed manual and interior revisions kind of did the trick for me, although I’m also still keeping an eye on decent looking C6Zs as well. 

Discerning > BeaterGT 10/29/2018 at 15:22

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Good luck!

I had a cree k develop in the center console towards the end of my ownership. It required pulling the part, cleaning everything around it, and covering most of it with a felt like material. It was pretty effective.

Discerning > VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely 10/29/2018 at 15:34

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I have mixed feelings actually. The car overall is fantastic and I test drove a few of them while I still had my C5Z (and a few after as well).

There’s a lot of things that come to mind but here are the most immediate.

Interior: I liked the design and loved the gauges and the screen. But I wish the plastics looked and felt more premium. I was looking at a new one and it felt a little cheap still for the price. I was cross shopping them with an F80 M3 at the time.

I also didn’t love the visibility. It is better than most every other car I tested, but it felt more cramped compared to a C6 or C5. A C5 or C6 feels really expansive and open out the windshield. It’s a little like driving a mid engine car, with how low the hood is. The C7 still feels like that, but to a lesser extent.

Pe rformance wise it is a no brainer. The electric diff is fantastic, the LT1 is phenomenal, and they don’t weigh that much more than a C6.

The aluminum frame could be a PITA of you ever want to do a roll bar or cage. I was also talking to the folks at MIT (in georgia) and they said the electronic suspension can be a hurdle if you want to change up the suspension down the road.

I like the C7 a lot, but I’m not convinced it is worth the premium over a C6Z. It’s faster than a C6Z around a track without the Z07 package, but the C6 feels more agile to me somehow.

Im not sure its even worth the premium over a C5Z for that matter. I’m not convinced its twice the c ar the C5Z is. But it’s close,if I’m honest.

RX > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 15:37

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I’ve never looked into it on a C6Z  Vette, but I’ m surprised there isn’ t an easy solution to a car that’s tracked so frequently. The Lotus Elise is aluminum and there are a few companies that make and relatively easy to install cage.

Discerning > RX 10/29/2018 at 16:08

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There’s a solution, but it’s costly.

Figure 3-4 grand for a 6 point cage. Vs. 1-1.5 k for a 6 point welded to the steel frame.

But I suppose the weight savings are worth it.

VajazzleMcDildertits - read carefully, respond politely > Discerning 10/29/2018 at 16:15

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I think a lot of people have mixed feelings about the C7. I’ve never owned one, so I figured I’d try for the most recent one with all the creature comforts I am starting to relish in middle age.

While being almost psychotically fast, of course. 

daender > BeaterGT 10/29/2018 at 19:05

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That’s if the LS7 can be repaired!  If it were me, then I’d buy one with the engine that’s beyond salvation and go ahead with building my own hardtop GS.

RacinBob > PartyPooper2012 10/29/2018 at 21:18

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